32 replies to this topic

[ferret]

How does one work out the efficieny of an intercooler?

For a twin turbo setup, whats better 1 big intercooler or 2 smaller ones?

[NJA82]

definately the biggest core you can find if you want the optimum cooling. For effiency i would go for a brand name cooler like ARC, HKS , Trust and Blitz etc. from the japs. These all use tube and fin cores which while are expensive to produce offer ultimate performance and nearly zero pressure drop.

Bad effiency IMO would be a cheap bar and plate cooler like the hybrid copy ones etc. that are restrictive and cool the air to a less than satisfactory temp.

Just remember this when applying a cooler to your set up:

Tube and fin= best flow

Bar and plate = best cooling ( if it is a good brand one )

If you have a big enough turbo/s to not have to worry about the lag then a big tube and fin core ( 110mm thick ) is the perfect all round cooler. Best flow and best cooling due to its size.

A 110mm thick tube and fin cooler will out cool a 75-85mm thick bar and plate equivilent and have about 25% less restriction on the air flow ( pressure drop ). Dont expect to pick up a good 110mm tube and fin core for much under $1000 though... even that is cheap.

A big single core would have less heat soak and less piping and bends in the piping so would be a better choice. It would almost definately get more air flow over the core as well.

[ferret]

I am running 2 T3/4's hopefully between 10 and 30 Psi at 450 cfm each. This in theory is way too much air for the 253 but if there are losses in flow this may even out.

What would a bad effiency IMO be... 50%, 70% or less ?
as you can tell I'm still trying to figure these intercoolers out.

[ferret]

Are second hand intercoolers worth looking at or do most people only sell them if they are stuffed?

[DECEIT]

go to http://www.justjap.c...ntercoolers.htm . heaps of cores to choose from.

[cal-a-kid]

hybrid ones do an awesome job, i've never heard anyone that wasn't happy with theirs... I don't know why people bag them so much??? probs because they spent to grand on their blitz one and can barely notice the difference in power...

Dean

[DECEIT]

think its personal prefrence. but they all do the same job.

micks metal craft make awsome custom cores. mine got spat under the car and its still going strong

[cal-a-kid]

Quote

they all do the same job

Exactly ... i've just got a "shitty" hybrid and when you touch the exhaust side of the piping it is rather hot, then you touch the inlet side and it is almost cold to touch, you can't tell me they don't work or cool... I say get a cheap hybrid copy, they won't let you down...

Dean

[ferret]

I was thinking some thing like this.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HUGE-FMIC-TURBO-Int...1QQcmdZViewItem

what do you think.

[mr-squiggle]

well it all comes down to what you pay is what you get, apprently the hybrids have less flow in them, but thats what i have heard from people talking...

make sure you buy a cooler with the fins on an angle.. not straight (being able to see through the cooler)

[NJA82]

^^^ this is a GOOD point, bar and plate coolers allow bugger all air flow over the radiator as they have a quite obstrctive design. In a car with not so good of a cooling system this can be a major drama. Tube and fine allow easier airflow due to the design of the fins and tubes in the core.

If people think that there is NO difference between a $1000+ cooler and a $300 hybrid one please do not even bother posting up useless crap like that on here anymore. That is completely wrong information.. Some of you guys underestimate the amount of study that and knowledge that some people on this forum have and just blurt out crap like that all day and expect everyone to beleive you because you say it with an attitude.

Like Said above you get what you pay for, i seen micks metalcraft coolers mentioned earler, they are another good quality cooler and one you wont get much change from for over $1000.

At the end of the day if you think that your hybrid cooler is the best one out there, thats great, but how much timing advance can you run into your engine at full boost? And how much pressure drop do you get at 1 bar??

Probably dont know because you never checked but still say yours is as good as all the $1000+ jap cores. Once again internet forums...... source of everything people dont really want to know.


The one on Ebay is typical of Ebay.... 0.11psi pressure drop at 22psi That is mathmatically impossible... i would say around 2-3psi drop more like it, it is a bar and plate cooler. They really do prey on people who have no knowledge.



And last time i checked he asked which type and whats best for his application.... not what brand is the cheapest...

[ferret]

Thanks guys I'll keep my eyes out.

[sinister]

Question was brought up on another forum I frequent and was replied to by one well known tuners in Australia, this is what he said. (best cooler money aside)

Quote

in the 68mm range BLITZ is my choice, they use a in-house designed core that has so many features i could write a book on it...

in the over 115mm range TRUST Type-R would be a no brainer.. thier 165mm and 149mm coolers are used by all the top workshops and the results speak for themselves.

The other boutique brands like ARC are very good.... but there is no proof that they perform better and that is FACT.

BUT REMMEBER EVERYTHIING IS RELATIVE TO APPLICATION... if you have a stock eng with a t25g a 165mm trust cooler would be a HUUUGE waste of money.... the 68mm would do a far better job.

really depends on the length, common consensis is 600x260x70 (ish) this provides the best cooling/pressure drop ratio.... remmeber a core that cools better will always have a higher pressure drop so dont ever shop on pressure drop.... for example a hybrid copy cooler has very little pressure drop as it also has a very low cooling capacity aswell...

a good thing to ask your intercooler manufacturer is what their pressure drop to cooling ratio is.... there is a basic calculation to work out pressure drop accross their cores..

for example one very reputable brand has a ratio of 0.85 for 70mm cores and 0.82 for 100mm cores.

so at 1.2bar boost x 0.85 (ratio) = 1.02bar therefore at 1.2bar cooler will have a pressure drop of 0.18bar

Vspl has no internal cooling fins (only ridges) and has very low pressure drop, this low pressure drop helps with small turbos, lower boost etc.... Rspl has internal fins like the LM and has a higher pressure drop as it is designed for larger turbos and high boost and provides better cooling.

BLITZ LM 78mm (1litre to 2.5 litre eng) and 100mm is designed for boost levels from 0.85-1.4bar has a tighter fin arrangement at the inlet/outlets and a more spacious arrangement as you travel up the core. This provides far better distribution and overall cooling. this extra cooling can come at a loss in high boost aplications say over 1.5bar because of the inherent design properties ie maximum cooling will have a higher pressure drop as boost increases.. but for average joe the benefits of this cooler below that 1.5bar mark is well and trully an advantage especially cooling wise you can often run a few more degrees of timing. ps we run 2.0bar through our LM cooler on the supra and i have substituted a few different brands to gauge differences and for this car with 3litre eng and 2.0bar it really requires a 149mm TRUST cooler to get maximun power, but around town and for everyday driving at 1.3bar the 100mm blitz core is superior.

TRUST R-SPL 76mm, 115mm, 149mm and 165mm the smaller cores (70-115) have the same properties as the blitz but wihout the distribution fin arrangement and work well. The larger 149-165mm versions are primarily for drag and have a excellent flow to cooling ratio suited to high boost. These are not designed for sitting in traffic and providing driveabilty smile.gif


Internal pics of core. Personally i dont care what brand some-ones buys... at the end of the day i get nothing out of it... BUT i do base my recommendations on fact and experience. If a brand is better i will tell you much like i have in the coil-over section... i dont sel hsd but they are the only brand outside of the top jap makes i would recommend. much like hybrid is the only mid spec cooler i would recomend.

TRUST V-spl


TRUST R-spl and BLITZ LM

[ferret]

Thats what I was looking for ........Thanks sinister.

[ferret]

heres the amount of room I have to play with. Note the radiator needs to go in here too. Since this photo I have cut out the guards to give me some more room.

[cal-a-kid]

Quote

hybrid is the only mid spec cooler i would recomend

^^^ That comes from the bottom of that really smart guys post that sinister posted...

A number of cars run good times with these coolers, so if your not looking to set the world on fire, and don't want to pay 1000 dollars plus for a cooler than these are the way to go. As you will be having two outlets on one side and one on the other you won't feel as bad when your hacking into the side of it either

You can find hybrids for 100 dollars now, cheap as!!!

Dean

[ferret]

Don't want to set a world record but 10's would be nice.

Might set the world on fire when the conrods get blasted through the sump and start an oil fire

[mr-squiggle]

well are you looking at mounting it at the front?

[cal-a-kid]

I have a video of a blue vlt running a 10 with one of these coolers... full bodied car with stereo and everything still in it... It would weigh alot more than a gemini, and isn't a twin turbo'd v8, so go figure...

Dean

[ferret]

mr-squiggle said:

well are you looking at mounting it at the front?

If I had 2 small i/coolers I would mount them where the guards used to be in front of the tyres but if I go 1 bug sucker it's gonna have to go infront of the grill somewhere unless the radiator goes in the cab or boot. Then that would bring more issues like the water pump having to push an extra 20 - 30 litres of water / coolant.

Not 100% yet.
The intercooler is the deciding factor.