21 replies to this topic

[shaun]

Hey,

I've got an R33 thats coming up with the error code 21 using the ECUtalk cable and software, currently its running like crap and ive been chasing the cause for a few months now with no luck.

The problems are;
The car coughs really badly when it comes on boost and has no power, it seems like it losses all spark as itll cough and sputter until the revs drop right down then itll pick up again but it revs fine with no load.
It occasionally hunts on idle and runs real rich but comes good if i disconnect the TPS.
the timing seems really erratic, checked it on the ecu and it was jumping between 30 & 40 degrees BTDC, so i adjusted it using the cam angle sensor with a timing light to 15 degrees BTDC. Now it'll sitting at 15 until i reconnect the TPS then it jumps to 20 BTDC.

I've changed the AFM and O2 sensor and cleaned my IAC and they all read within tolerence on the computer. I've also just changed the plugs which are now gapped to 0.8mm.

I've got an RB30/25 with an Emanage blue and Profec E-01 boost controller, stock turbo only running 10psi on high boost.

If anyone has any ideas where to look next or what causes Err 21 it would be greatly appreciated also if any one in the townsville area has a R33 that i could plug my laptop into to get some base sensor measurements that would be great.

Cheers shaun

[200sxxx]

no idea
your best bet is to post this up on skylines australia somewhere there will know, alot of smart cookies

[200sxxx]

just did a quick search and i think error 21 is ignition signal
which seems to go along with your symptons

[hirpm boostjunky]

coils or coil pack loom. find another skyline you can swap the coils and loom out of to test and see if it fixes the problem

[shaun]

hirpm boostjunky, on 02 December 2009 - 09:18 PM, said:

coils or coil pack loom. find another skyline you can swap the coils and loom out of to test and see if it fixes the problem

I was thinking the same, i dont think its the loom if it was it'd be missing in a big way all the time. maybe a coil? does any one have some i could borrow for some beer?

Any one know what the ECU is reading to get Error 21, ie voltage/current on what pin/sensor? i cant find it anywhere in the wksp manual.

Edited by shaun, 02 December 2009 - 09:34 PM.

[hirpm boostjunky]

shaun, on 02 December 2009 - 09:31 PM, said:

hirpm boostjunky, on 02 December 2009 - 09:18 PM, said:

coils or coil pack loom. find another skyline you can swap the coils and loom out of to test and see if it fixes the problem

I was thinking the same, i dont think its the loom if it was it'd be missing in a big way all the time. maybe a coil? does any one have some i could borrow for some beer?

try the coils first, if still there, try the loom,

[Urban Monkey]

Are you still running standard coilpacks? If so they may have seen better days. Mine did the same thing, break down under load and boost but sparked fine otherwise.

Standard coilpacks breaking down on a skyline happens all the time. Good one day, shot the next. Get some splitfires, JJRs, whatever floats your boat they're all good from the aftermarket range.

Edited by Econovan, 02 December 2009 - 09:56 PM.

[shaun]

I am still running stock coils, i was hoping therd be some cheap quick fix but im going to have to get new ones. Ill have to wait to after chrissy ( casual work = no paid holidays- rent & bills = no money) but ill let every one know how i go once i swap them over. hopefully that'll sort out the hunting problems to.

[Urban Monkey]

The cheapest ones your probably gonna find are the JJR's or the Supersparks. I got the JJR's in mine and are rock solid. Otherwise splitfires are proven to work but cost you a couple of hundred extra or thereabouts.

Otherwise in the meantime if you wanna muck around with the stockers, get some electrical tape and wrap the crap out of you coilpacks, or coat them in CRC electrical insulation spray or alternatively araldite.

This is supposed to help prevent the coilpacks from arcing out onto the block. Hairline cracks develop in the plastic and the spark escapes. I did try this on mine to no avail though mind you.

[jonzie26]

hey matey if you need a quick fix that lasts a while pull all of your coils out and wrap them with a couple of layer of electrical tape. I had similar sort of problems to what you are having and tape just adds enough insulation so that the coils stop arcing out on the cam covers.

[hirpm boostjunky]

Econovan, on 02 December 2009 - 09:56 PM, said:

Are you still running standard coilpacks? If so they may have seen better days. Mine did the same thing, break down under load and boost but sparked fine otherwise.

Standard coilpacks breaking down on a skyline happens all the time. Good one day, shot the next. Get some splitfires, JJRs, whatever floats your boat they're all good from the aftermarket range.

i'll admit i never tested the JJR's, but i back to back tested splitfires, stocks and another brand of aftermarket coils on the dyno a while back

standard coils that were in good condition were the best out of the lot of them, most consistant, and also produced the highest power

Splitfires came close to standard but were still down a couple kw consistantly compared to standard coils,

the other brand i tested which shall remane nameless, well they sucked ass, they were a good 10+kw down on power right thru out the rev range compared to stock and splitfire, even worse was there performance under heat soak and abuse, they drop off the power run after run was shocking, from 1st run to 5th run straight after another there was a 20-25kw difference were as the other 2 there was only about a 5 to 10kw difference

[Urban Monkey]

naaaasty, I haven't heard of any particular brand that are that poop

[hirpm boostjunky]

Econovan, on 03 December 2009 - 06:31 AM, said:

naaaasty, I haven't heard of any particular brand that are that poop

thats cause the people that are still running them havent done any back to back testing with them like i did, hell the first set i got off him lasted 5minutes before they cracked to shithouse and the car wouldnt even idle with them, 2nd set did feel fine to drive with and all, but there performance on the dyno compared to good stockers scared the f**k out of me

[charger408]

hirpm boostjunky, on 03 December 2009 - 03:08 PM, said:

Econovan, on 03 December 2009 - 06:31 AM, said:

naaaasty, I haven't heard of any particular brand that are that poop

thats cause the people that are still running them havent done any back to back testing with them like i did, hell the first set i got off him lasted 5minutes before they cracked to shithouse and the car wouldnt even idle with them, 2nd set did feel fine to drive with and all, but there performance on the dyno compared to good stockers scared the f**k out of me

sounds like coils if you done your plugs properly. also check for water or oil in around the spark plugs this will also cause a missfire.
automotive service solutions can get these coils for around 150 each, expensive if u ask me. i havnt shoped around so u might find cheaper
but i know there coils are pretty good quality.

[shaun]

I coated my coils in high temp silicon a couple of days ago and it improved briefly but now it cuts out as soon as it gets any sort of load. so its definately my coils, im going to pick up some superspark ones next week and see if that sorts it out.
cheers for everyones input ill let you know how it goes

[shaun]

Hey I finally had enough spare cash to buy some splitfires and chucked them in today. Still have no joy, its running like crap coughing and chugging black smoke and im still getting err 21.
I pulled out the loom from the coils to the plug at the back of the head and pinned it out. Its fine no shorts or open ccts and earths fine.
Next im going to pull out the ECU and pin that through and hope i that the ignition wire is open cct and easy to find, if that doesnt work i thinks its going off to an auto lecky for some professional help.
Any one have any other ideas? also how hard is it to remove the ECU loom from under the dash?

Cheers Shaun

[hirpm boostjunky]

what plug gap you running, series 1 or 2? have you tried another igniter if its series 1.

[shaun]

hirpm boostjunky, on 23 April 2010 - 06:19 PM, said:

what plug gap you running, series 1 or 2? have you tried another igniter if its series 1.

Its a Series 2 and got brand new copper plugs gapped to 0.8mm. I've also turned theboost back down to stock, changed the O2 sensor and and airflow meter. cleaned the IAC and checked the sensor readings using OBD scan tech software. the only fault that comes up is Ignition Signal not present (ERR 21). Timing also seems to be way off, it sits at about 30 deg btdc at idle but i think that cos its gone into safe mode.

[hirpm boostjunky]

shaun, on 23 April 2010 - 06:37 PM, said:

hirpm boostjunky, on 23 April 2010 - 06:19 PM, said:

what plug gap you running, series 1 or 2? have you tried another igniter if its series 1.

Its a Series 2 and got brand new copper plugs gapped to 0.8mm. I've also turned theboost back down to stock, changed the O2 sensor and and airflow meter. cleaned the IAC and checked the sensor readings using OBD scan tech software. the only fault that comes up is Ignition Signal not present (ERR 21). Timing also seems to be way off, it sits at about 30 deg btdc at idle but i think that cos its gone into safe mode.

Make sure you've got the earth on the coilpack harness bolted to the head were the rail that the coils sit in bolt down, not onto the cam covers otherwise it wont earth properly.

with your timing depending on what timing light is used sometimes they tend to read half of actual timing at idle, get a short lead and stick it from coil to plug and hook your timing light up to that, with your CAS it should be bolted down roughly in the middle of the slots provided, unless you have adjustable cam gears and the timing has been f**ked with. trace back all the coil pack wires to make sure there isnt any little nicks, check the condition of the plugs that go onto your coils to make sure there in good condition aswell as checking the 8 pin plug that goes from coil pack harness to main engine harness

[shaun]

finally got the time to look at my car again. i pulled out the emanage and started it up, the fault code is now gone but its still coughing and running like shit. So now im completely out of ideas. the Earth to the coils is fine and the loom pins out ok.
Is any one keen for a cashy to come over and have a look at it? Even someone with a skyline that i can plug my laptop into and get some base sensor readings so i can see if there is anything different with mine.
Cheers shaun