9 replies to this topic

[TUF365]

Just wanting to get a few opinions on what you guys think works best when determining the line ups when racing as everyone seems to be doing it a different way. This is for handy cap racing.

I've seen places where there is no particular order and whoever rocks up on the line first competes. (Within their bracket of course).

A more common way is that the order is determined by competitor's best qualifying time. Fastest times are put in one lane and slower in the other. This then works out that the quickest competitors are competing against the slowest within their bracket.

Would it not be more exciting if we put the fastest competitors up against each other?

At the end of the day I guess it doesn't really matter because it's the clock your trying to beat, not so much the competitor.

What are your thoughts?

[sideways82]

would be go to see closer action, not quickest vs slowest

[sinister]

Agreed. I think some what matched races is the go. Probably more interesting from a spectator point of view. Means more work though than everyone simply lining up. Ultimately it's got to be kept easy for the drivers and officials though. Don't want a system that is difficult to implement.

What classes do you have? Perhaps if it's not too difficult you could have speed brackets and a pit lane for each bracket? Gets difficult if you have vehicle classes plus speed brackets also I suppose.

Don't want to get too competitive or difficult and take the fun out of it.

[Bunta]

Its usually random line up with the fastest dial in having lane choice.

[nqkjw]

Hey Simon,as a competitor I don't think any of us mind however the brackets are seeded so long as we don't run the same car twice(if shootout)
Are we talking shootout or eliminations?
I don't mind either format because i always have and always will race but I really think shootout is better for the newbies to give them a guaranteed 3 runs in the main event.
I could imagine a first time racer being pretty disillusioned if all he got was one run and he was out.

Which brings me to another point i would like to passionately raise.
The finals for shootout format.
To put it bluntly this "closest to dial-in" to choose the finalists is crap.
EVERY other racer I've spoken to about it agrees with me.
3 wins is 3 wins no matter how you get the win.
Worst case scenario is if you have 3 soft races where you back off before the line to ensure you don't break out.You haven't got a hope in hell of getting close to your dial-in.
Also,think of the point of view "I won every race and went home a loser".Leaves a bitter taste.
The solution?
Run a semi final round.
If there's 3 on 3 wins THEN give the closest to dial in the bye run.The point is that all on 3 wins get a shot at the finals.

At Winton last year in the top bracket there was 3 of us on 3 wins.We approached the meeting Director (Craig Angus)and put forward the semi final idea to him.
He liked the idea and asked the ANDRA steward if it was OK.He said "It's your meeting-do what you like!!!" LOL

The added bonus is a few extra races by the top qualifiers for the spectators and as we know the spectators are there to watch racing and in particular good,close racing which is what you get in finals/semi finals.

I recently ran at Warwick 1/8th mile strip and put my thoughts to the organisors.They really thought the idea has a LOT of merit and they said they'd bring it up at their next meeting.

A Good mate of mine (Mick Oakhill) is a Benaraby committee member.He was at Winton last year and liked the idea and reckoned he was going to raise it with his club.

Anyway,I hope you'll consider it and raise it with your committee.

Actually BJ came to Winton with us and he said he'd mention it to you.

Regards Ken

[adammacca]

The only real problem i see with running an extra round is turn around time. It's fine for most Super Streeters that can back up run after run. But the likes of Super Sedan and Modified to give them an extra half an hour to refuel and pack parachutes or what ever means too much down time for the crowd. Even getting them back after their third round for the final can be a problem.

The closest to dial just makes for more of a challenge to the racer. I'd personally prefer to win the easiest way possible.

[TUF365]

I totally see where you are coming from Ken and agree to a certain extent. 3 wins is 3 wins.

The main thing to remember is we are racing shoot out and not eliminations. Shoot out is not just about beating the person in the lane beside you. The winner is determined by not just being the quickest car but always how consistent your runs are and how close you can get to your dial in without breaking out and still beating the other car over the line.

Would it be fair if the winner won his 3 rounds but was way off on his dial in compared to 2 other competitors who got their wins and were so much closer to their dial ins? I don’t think so.

Either way, you’ve definitely got a valid point and its worth considering. Will have a chat to the other members. Thanks Ken.

Edited by TUF365, 09 May 2010 - 10:00 AM.

[nqkjw]

adammacca, on 08 May 2010 - 11:07 AM, said:

The only real problem i see with running an extra round is turn around time. It's fine for most Super Streeters that can back up run after run. But the likes of Super Sedan and Modified to give them an extra half an hour to refuel and pack parachutes or what ever means too much down time for the crowd. Even getting them back after their third round for the final can be a problem.

Isn't it written somewhere that sedans are expected to be able to run back to back?
Sometimes sedan rounds are used to give comp cars required cool down time.
I can see Adam's point being valid for the comp classes though.

TUF365, on 09 May 2010 - 09:59 AM, said:

I totally see where you are coming from Ken and agree to a certain extent. 3 wins is 3 wins.

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]The main thing to remember is we are racing shoot out and not eliminations. Shoot out is not just about beating the person in the lane beside you. The winner is determined by not just being the quickest car but always how consistent your runs are and how close you can get to your dial in without breaking out and still beating the other car over the line.

Out of interest I recently ran an 1/8th mile event at Warwick and took the superstreet win.They took the "closest to dial-in" to extremes there.They added how far over you were on all 3 rounds to determine the finalists.Although i thought it was very fair it seemed like a lot of work for the organisers to me.
I didn't mind.I ran a 7.75,7.76 and 7.74 on a 7.70 dial in

Quote

Would it be fair if the winner won his 3 rounds but was way off on his dial in compared to 2 other competitors who got their wins and were so much closer to their dial ins? I don’t think so.

Just my thoughts.
If the bloke who was way off his dial in couldn't (for whatever reason) get close to his dial in then he won't stand a chance against the other two racers anyway so he won't be a winner.
If,however,he is capable of running close to his dial in (and who knows?maybe closer than the other 2)then he deserves his chance to prove it.

No arguements or complaints here.
Just adding to a healthy discussion.

Out of interest.
At the March ChartersTowers event last year in V8 Street there was 3 of us (Brett Deneen,Melissa Cattell and myself) all on three wins.
There was only 9 thousandths of a second between our "closest to dial ins"
Melissa got bumped for the sake of 2 thousandths.

Anyway,see you on saturday.
For once i've pre-entered!!!

[TUF365]

Think we are going to run a semi as per your suggestions Ken. After all the effort that goes into setting up the day surely we can fit another race in. If 3 competitors with 3 wins - the closest to dial in will go to final while the other 2 beat it out in a semi. Thanks for your comments. Tomorrow is shaping up to be pretty big day. See you there!

[BLU51]

Depending on entry numbers there's always a 3rd option known as Chicago Shootout rules. This takes a long time to run, but can be modified in a few ways to suit. Traditionally everyone gets to race everyone once, after which all wins for each competitor are counted up and the racer with the most is the overall winner, and in the event of a tie then those two racers go into a final.

Variations on this that I have seen that give racers more track time, but cut down on overall time in the event of a larger field are for example everyone getting 5 races (Heads up or DYO depending on the comp), after which a count back is done to determine the winner, or those who will then go into a semi final, and/or final.

I appreciate the rules of normal racing but I also feel jipped when I dont make it into the finals after getting 3 wins. Anyway its all food for thought

Edited by BLU51, 18 May 2010 - 05:39 PM.